Talk:Tartarus

Anachronism

I changed "Tartarus is hemmed in by three layers of night, which surround a Beryllium wall, which in turn encompasses Tartarus. It is a dank and wretched pit engulfed in murky gloom." to remove the part about the "Beryllium wall", since that was clearly an anachronism. Beryllium was discovered in 1798, and cannot have been mentioned in classical mythology.Chignecto (talk) 01:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

tartarus

it was also refferenced in the testament of solomon saying that beazulbub was in charge of all the people there

Etymology?

Someone recently added the etymology to tartarus, claiming it to be "tartarizo" ('shivering cold'). I've never heard this before, and no searches turn up anything. I've been searching for an etymology for years and never really found anything, so, I'm wondering about the accuracy of this etymology. --Sfida 06:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Why not ask the person who made the addition which would be Lars951. (Bartimaeus 06:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC))

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Tartarus seems to be both a creature and a place (Typhus, child of Tartarus, is thrown into a pit called Tartarus). Perhaps someone who knows more about this could clarify it. Someone else

Tartarus is both a deity and a place in the underworld. Hades, Uranus and Gaia had the same dual nature--the underworld, the heavens and the earth, respectively. It is best to think of it in the same way as the river-gods. They were gods of their respective rivers (one river per god) but were also the physical embodiment of that river. For example, one river-god whose name I can't remember "had sex" in a fashion with a girl who was turned into a spring by changing his course to go underground and mingle his water with hers. He was both a person who represented the river and the river itself. Tartarus is the same kind of thing.

I get the concept, I was just thinking that it ought to be explicit on the Tartarus page. So I'll move the explanation to the subject page. Someone else

I can't find ta location for Tartarus as a creature. Is it in a medieval Christian poem? Or is it just someone's feeling that if Hades was a god as well as a place, then Tartarus ought to be one too. I itch to remove this stumble, but I hold off on the principle Avoid unnecessary interference. Can anyone help? --Wetman 20:47, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've got it: lines in Hesiod and Pindar... Still seems more like poetry than myth...--Wetman 22:15, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

lol, why you would want to find references to an ancient Greek afterlife place in a Christian poem? Anyway, Hesiod and Pindar are centuries older than the proposed date of birth of Jesus.--Darthanakin 08:31, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Isn't there a moon or an asteroid named after Tartarus? There's one named after almost everything else in mythology.

Tartarus the Brute leader?

Tartarus in neopaganism

I have some serious doubts about this section; most neopagans seem to endorse reincarnation or some kind of Summerland idea of the afterlife, and while Hellenic polytheism allows for many and varied views of the afterlife, I have never heard anyone in the Hellenic polytheist community describe Tartarus as anything even remotely close to the Christian Hell, or draw an analogy between Cronos and Satan. The only reference to this I've ever seen is a tongue-in-cheek parody of an anti-Catholic Chick tract, which, while quite funny, doesn't represent the actual religious views of its author. Unless some major new information is brought forward, I'm inclined to delete the section, because I really don't think neopagans have any kind of a consistent view on this topic. - AdelaMae ^{(talk - contribs)} 06:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

"Inspired Scriptures?"

What's that "inspired scriptures" talk in the See Also section? Looks like the POV of the practitioner of a particular religion.

Removed Xtian section

I removed the section about "Christian Tartarus" as I am not familiar with any such reference and couldn't find any references. If I'm mistaken, then please by all means restore the deleted section ***and provide references to back it up*** . Thank you. Zero sharp 04:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC) The Book of Enoch, which is used by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, leads me to believe that there is a Christian or Hebrew realm described by the term 'Tartarus'. Is this logical? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.89.231.10 (talk) 03:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Massive Errors

There are some really big errors and misunderstandings in this article.

• Hades is a God, not a place. Hades has erroneously come to mean the underworld in lay usage, however, and some people argued that in the Hades article, readers would expect to see Hades as refering to underworld - and so it should stay. But I doubt that argument holds here. For the sake of clarity, the underworld should be called the "underworld" (but I will add that modern usage also erroneously refers to the underworld as "Hades").
• Tartarus is not "below" the underworld in ANY SENSE. It is merely a part of the underworld.
• Hesiod's Theogony DOES NOT say that Tartarus was the son of Aether and Gaia: Tartarus, along with Nyx, Erebus, Gaia and Eros, were the first beings to come into existence from kaos (chaos).
• Also, I don't remember the Iliad refering to the underworld as "Hades". That is a gross misquotation. In fact, I don't remember that story being in Iliad, but I may be wrong about that. [Indeed, I am: Homer does say this; but it is contradictory to the rest of Iliad, so presenting this line as fact without context is misleading - Krea 23:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)]. Hesiod said that: A brazen anvil, if let go from Heaven, would fall for nine days and nights and land on Earth on the tenth (and make one hell of a mess!); and that if let go from the Earth would fall for nine days and nights and would reach Tartarus on the tenth.

Are there any objections to the points I've raised? If not, then I will go ahead and correct the article. Krea 18:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Concerning the following statement: "As for the place, the Greek poet Hesiod asserts that a bronze anvil falling from heaven would fall 9 days before it reached the Earth. The anvil would take nine more days to fall from Earth to Tartarus. That would make 7625651,04 meters"

I am wondering how the figure 7625651,04 meters was calculated. I am unable to come up with this number, using the little physics and math that I am familiar with. I am assuming the comma in the number is European style and in America it would be a period. But any way I am curious about the formula used to get from 9 days of falling to 7,625,651 meters. I get 2,948,810,000 meters using s = 1/2*a*t^2. I have not made any changes to the article. Yentoknow (talk) 05:07, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the distance "calculation", it appears to be based on (9.8 m/s^2)*(9 days) = 7,600,000 m/s. The 0.5*a*t^2 formula also would be wrong, since the acceleration isn't constant. But the idea of calculating this distance (down to the centimeter, no less) is ridiculous anyway, so I took it out. 128.146.90.36 (talk) 20:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

The article states that in Greek mythology Cronus cast the Hecatonchires into Tartarus and Zeus rescued them. However, It was actually Uranus who cast the Hecatonchires into Tartarus and Cronus who rescued them. I would cite my source but Wikipedia won't let me because the pantheon website is on some kind of blacklist. JimmyVermeer (talk) 14:46, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Return of Etymology

Someone has included yet another etymology, "deep place" -- does anyone have any confirmation on whether this is a true etymology or not? Should I add a fact tag? --Serph 20:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Danaids

There is no mention of the Danaids in the bit mentioning people who were eternally punished. I'm certain there was another person as well but I will have to check. TheTrojanHought 16:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy XII

Ermm... wasn't the wolf in the Feywood also named Tartarus, not Tartar? I can't remember...

Persona 3

In P3 the place where you trained by fighting the Shadows was called Tartarus. Half the point of the game was to get to the highest floor of Tartarus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.73.58.2 (talk) 14:11, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Mack Lyon

I was flipping through channels awhile back and became entranced by the hypnotic powers of televangelist/re-animated cadaver Mack Lyon. According to Lyon, good people go to Paradise and evil people go to Tartarus. When the Final Judgment arrives, the righteous will be allowed to enter Heaven and the wicked will be cast into Hell. (Apparently, making your devoted servants wait just outside the walls of your home for thousands of years is an expression of divine love.) I've never heard this theological interpretation before, so this belief is probably not widely held and it may not be noteworthy enough for inclusion in the article, but there it is. 63.215.28.84 (talk) 04:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

took out external link

I took out the external link. It was an obvious spamming attempt. Nothing related to our tartarus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erikringmar (talk • contribs) 00:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I added the mention of the prison gaurd kampe and was disappointed that there were no pages to her so I created one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Percy Jackson (talk • contribs) 22:04, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

City of Villians

The archvillian Lord Recluse derives his power from Tartarus. I took the liberty of adding this. AkuTenshiiZero (talk) 02:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

gehenna = fiery pit?

i changed the gloss after gehenna from 'fiery pit' to 'hinnom valley' (hinnom is a dude's name). that's what the word actually means. (gei = valley) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.104.128 (talk) 02:01, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Torture

The article says that the word 'torture' comes from 'tartarus'. In the Oxford English Dictionary, it says that the word torture comes from Latin 'tortura' (twisting, torment), from 'torquere' (to twist).--Jcvamp (talk) 17:52, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

hell..

Click! Vivasvan, Rahu, Bhūmi, Naraka, Ananta, Garbhodaksayi Vishnu

There's too much christian data on this article as if the bible is the original source of the words, when it's not, tartarus is a greek word, not hebrew nor latin, hades is not a hell nor a heaven. If the article clearly refers to greek mythology, then let's get rid of christian mythology from all the greek mythology once and for all. citing the bible as source to something belonging to greek mythology is simply Wrong!--201.247.28.7 (talk) 07:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the "hell" tag should be removed. "Hell" is a Abrahamic concept and not synonomous with underworld. I will remove if there is support and no objections.JanderVK (talk) 13:33, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

The Christian Tartarus is referred to in the letter of Jude, I believe. In Christian theology, Tartarus is the realm of imprisoned angels who sinned by interbreeding with man in the days of Noah. The Jewish concept of the Greek Tartarus was an equivalent of Tehom, the abyss from Genesis 1:2. It's also the abyss pictured in Revelation whence come the locusts. You're getting in to deeper, less known Christian doctrine here, but it is still Christian belief nonetheless. The general consensus among believers is that Tartarus is "lower" than Sheol/Hell/Hades, and is specifically reserved for angels' imprisonment and torment before the final days when all unrighteous are thrown into the Lake Of Fire (poetically called "Gehenna"). In this case, the Greek Tartarus is largely synonymous with the purpose of the Christian Tartarus (switch the titans with the nephilim/sons of God in Genesis 6), and this is likely why New Testament writers used the word Tartarus instead of porting Tehom into Greek usage. It's similar to why they used Christ instead of Messiah. There was already a fitting Greek word, so there was no need to bring in a Hebrew one. Hope that clarifies the Christian part of Tartarus. It does exist and it is a thing. It's just lesser known. Kinda like the "harrowing of Hell" which is rarely acknowledged in Protestant circles despite being generally accepted as true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MegaHayzer (talk • contribs) 17:56, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Below Hades?

The article for Hades states that Tartarus is one of the three main parts of Hades, alongside the Asphodel Fields and Elysium. So why is there such a discrepency between the two articles? 142.26.194.190 (talk) 21:47, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Souces not clear or listed

I read the entire article. Let me now make a few comments.

1. "Some myths also say he imprisoned the three Hecatonchires (giants with fifty heads and one hundred arms)"

Which myths? This needs a source.

2. "In some versions, the Danaides murdered their husbands and were punished in Tartarus by being forced to carry water in a jug to fill a bath which will thereby wash off their sins, but the jugs were actually sieves so the water always leaked out."

Saying that "some versions" say something is not enough. There is no source for this.

Unless the sources for the Greek and Roman mythology are clearly listed, the information is not valid. I assume that the section on Greek mythology from "In the Greek poet Hesiod's Theogony" to "Zeus to smite him with a thunderbolt." is to be attributed to Hesiod. Using delimiters and subsections like "Hesiod" and "Plato" is probably a good idea.

ICE77 (talk) 22:51, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Job?

Under the "New Testament" section it lists Job as mentioning Tartarus. "Tartarus occurs in the Septuagint of Job 40:20, 41:21 but otherwise is only known in Hellenistic Jewish literature from the Greek text of 1 Enoch 20:2 where Uriel is the jailer of 200 angels that sinned."

This is incorrect as Job is believed to be one of the oldest books written and would not have been influenced by Greek culture. Job 40:20 and 41:21 do not contain any reference to an underworld of any kind. I've removed the part about Job from this section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gr4yJ4Y (talk • contribs) 20:33, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Your reasoning is heavily flawed; the Old Greek translation of Job dates from roughly the mid-2nd century BCE. It need not reflect the intention of the original author of Job, as it is a translation, and thus an interpretation. (See, for instance, the introduction to Job in the New English Translation of the Septuagint [NETS], also available here: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/. For dating issues, Annette Yoshiko Reed, "Job as Jobab: The Interpretation of Job in LXX 42:17b-e," JBL 120.1 [2001]: 31-55, specifically page 34, and the accompanying bibliography.)

Also, the text for Job 40:20 reads: ἐπελθὼν δὲ ἐπ᾽ ὄρος ἀκρότομον ἐποίησεν χαρμονὴν τετράποσιν ἐν τῷ ταρτάρῳ. Likewise, Job 41:32 (or 41:24, depending on the numbering scheme) reads: τὸν δὲ τάρταρον τῆς ἀβύσσου ὥσπερ αἰχμάλωτον ἐλογίσατο ἄβυσσον εἰς περίπατον. The connection to the underworld can be disputed; the presence of "Tartarus" cannot. 67.52.12.146 (talk) 17:42, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

How can an abyss be deep?

If an abyss is a **bottomless pit**, then how can there be such a thing as a "deep abyss"?

I'm not a native English speaker, so I won't make this change myself, but I suspect this is not quite right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:980:93A5:1:79F6:4BF5:64C:5FBD (talk) 14:16, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Tartarus is described in the article as a "deep abyss" partly because that's the direct translation of Ancient Greek descriptions of Tartarus, and thus, should not be modified more than necessary, and partly because in English and many other languages, mythic places, objects and beings are often described via exaggeration through tautology, i.e., "highest of the high," "greatest of the great"--Mr Fink (talk) 15:05, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Orphic reference removed

The piece originally said "In ancient Orphic sources and in the mystery schools, Tartarus is also the unbounded first-existing entity from which the light and the cosmos are born." After extensive searching, I conclude that this confuses Nyx and Tartarus. Nyx was the original entity in Orphism, not Tartarus. This false claim about Tartarus is widely copied across websites that use Wikipedia as a source. I have removed it to avoid the falsehood propagating any further. 2A00:23C6:2498:8E01:92B:6475:9D3C:E97B (talk) 21:54, 15 March 2023 (UTC)