Talk:Siouxsie Sioux

Bilingual in what?

"Her mother, Betty, was a bilingual half-Scots and half-English secretary,"

She was bilingual in Scots and English? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.71.245.236 (talk) 22:13, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Tale of Two Suzies

I am placing a hatnote here to clarify that this singer is not another singer. I see that the other singer already has a hatnote, and it makes sense to me that this one as well. After all, their names are pronounced 100% identically, and someone could come across the name of this singer and wonder if it was an alternate spelling. Best to help the reader out. Unschool 20:53, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

I just wanted to say that I approved of this edit.Unschool 00:19, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Request for comments 2019

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Can this DailyMail source "a long interview of singer Florence Welch published in 2010 [1] citing Siouxsie Sioux as one of her references", be included in the Siouxsie article in the influence section, as an exception only for this page ? I ask this because the Daily Mail was deprecated as a reliable source for poor fact checking in their politics pages and stories in their news pages in 2017 and 2019. The interview was conducted by Louise Gannon which résumé can be found at [2]. Gannon interviewed other artists such as Mick Jagger [3] and Madonna [4]. Carliertwo (talk) 01:36, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Louise Gannon's interview of Madonna is also available on the DM source via web.archive [5] The Florence Welch inteview DM source would be helpful for the Siouxsie article, as it is an interview of Florence Welch containing this statement :<< I'm lucky that there seems to be a massive revival in female performers. My icons were always women like Kate Bush, Stevie Nicks and Siouxsie Sioux. Who wouldn't be proud to carry o n that tradition? >>. She clearly recognized Siouxsie as an inspiration in this interview made by journalist "LOUISE GANNON FOR MAILONLINE", which was published on 14 August 2010.

This source would be an exception, only for that Siouxsie article as The Daily Mail source was deprecated as a reliable source in 2017 and in 2019 [6] after the problems of poor fact-checking regarding politics and Brexit campaign; <<Consensus has determined that the Daily Mail (including its online version, dailymail.co.uk) is generally unreliable, and its use as a reference is to be generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist. As a result, the Daily Mail should not be used for determining notability, nor should it be used as a source in articles. An edit filter should be put in place going forward to warn editors attempting to use the Daily Mail as a reference. The general themes of the support !votes centred on the Daily Mail’s reputation for poor fact checking, sensationalism, and flat-out fabrication>>. Carliertwo (talk) 01:36, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Support. This is an interview of a singer; it is not a fake interview of a politician. I dont think anyone should doubt the veracity of this interview. It was published in the "Culture" pages of the newspaper. Carliertwo (talk) 01:36, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Oppose not solely because of the sourcing, but also because the section is already something of an examplefarm. Given the number of mentions already included, I don't think one with less reliable sourcing warrants inclusion. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:23, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

This answer is off topic, this rfc is only about whether this long Q & A of a musician [7] is a true interview or a fake. The rfc consensus said 'generally unreliable' which means that the newspaper source can be acceptable under certain circumstances and this is one of them. The Daily Mail has always published interviews of artists/singers/actors for promotion of new albums, films in their Culture pages. Carliertwo (talk) 08:06, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

The question asked is whether that source should be included, and my answer is that it should not. The fact that the source has published other interviews, does not speak to whether this one is real or fake, nor does it mean that this is a circumstance under which the source should be used. Concerns expressed in previous discussions of this source were not limited to its political content. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:40, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Your last sentence is not correct: the Culture pages of the DailyMail with interviews of artists were not mentioned /discussed in those rfcs. Carliertwo (talk) 15:25, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

*Support - Unless something better is out there then I don't see why this shouldn't be used - This looks to be a legit interview so for this specific case I see no harm with it being used, (I will just add that my supporting shouldn't set a precedence that DM is fine as a source because it isn't however this is an interview and not the usual tabloid shite). –Davey2010^Talk 18:27, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose as per sources below (Thanks Binksternet), FWIW I hadn't bothered searching prior to my !vote but anyway I'm happy with the sources presented. –Davey2010^Talk 19:19, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Davey2010, The DailyMail source is the only source/interview providing a quote of Florence Welch revering Siouxsie. None of the sources providing by Blinksternet would fit for the Influence section as they are all assumptions of journalists with not one single quote of Florence Welch. Your first view saying that this interview was legit, was reasonable. We have tried our best to find sources with interviews of singers citing Siouxsie, I have found one for Florence Welch but you don't want it to be included because you don't make any difference between the Culture pages of the DM and the Political pages of the DM. This is a pity. Following your logic, I might include reviews of Bjork albums claiming that Bjork was influenced by Siouxsie (there are tons of sources claiming this) whereas it is not correct --> Bjork has never namedropped Siouxsie in an interview, and Bjork gave hundreds and hundreds of interviews. Carliertwo (talk) 19:45, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. I am not against telling the reader that Florence took inspiration from Siouxsie, but let's find better sources. First off, the Daily Mail is terribly unreliable. Second, the Daily Mail source only mentions Siouxsie – it fails to describe the why or the how of the connection. Third, there are better sources describing how Florence's vocal stylings take after Siouxsie's.[8][9][10][11][12] Binksternet (talk) 19:06, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Is there a better source than a quote coming from directly an artist instead of assumptions of journalists ? Binksternet, none of your sources contain a quote from Florence Welch, the sources are feeble, there are reviews of albums, all are just assumptions of journalists. The point of the influence section in a wiki biography is to let the artists speak and not put names in their mouth. The quote of an artist citing their references will always weigh far far heavier than a view of a journalist, advancing that X has been influenced by Y without any quote to support the claim.

So no, none of your sources is better than the Florence welch interview of the DailyMail : << I'm lucky that there seems to be a massive revival in female performers. My icons were always women like Kate Bush, Stevie Nicks and Siouxsie Sioux. Who wouldn't be proud to carry on that tradition? >>. And seriously , do you think that "Vogue Italy" ( a fashion website) is better than the only legit online interview of Florence Wlech citing Siouxsie as an influence ? Carliertwo (talk) 19:42, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

When the Daily Mail publishes a quote, I question whether the person really said it, or was the quote fabricated.

It will involve more work, but Florence's inspiration from Siouxsie can be given its own sentence or two, rather than being relegated to a simple list entry. Binksternet (talk) 20:15, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

What you're saying is astonishing. The DM source contains a long interview (Q & A) of Florence, it is a legit interview, this is not a quote isolated in the middle of an article. You can click on this link via the web.archive website link, so you won't see any ad. https://web.archive.org/web/20160304212113/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1302232/Florence-Welch-The-time-dad-worried-Pete-Doherty-proposed.html Have you clicked on it ? Carliertwo (talk) 20:47, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it looks like a creative writing project. Binksternet (talk) 21:23, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

I've made a research about the author. Journalist Louise Gannon has an impressive résumé as one can looks at it on the bcm-agency website [13], she also works for Elle and The Sunday Times Magazine. She has conducted interviews other famous singers like Madonna, once for DM [14] and another one for Elle magazine [15]. Louie Gannon's interview of Mick Jagger is mentioned in this biography about the Stones singer [16]. She's not an anonymous writer, does this count Binksternet ?. Carliertwo (talk) 23:22, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

That certainly helps. Binksternet (talk) 06:39, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose Had I been aware of the linked RFC on the Daily Mail, I would have !voted to support its premise but oppose its conclusion. I am convinced that the Daily Mail is generally unreliable, which is another way of saying that it is sometimes reliable but usually not. Perhaps the interview you wish to cite is one of those cases in which the DM is actually to be trusted (although see my previous "usually not"). But the level of anti-DM sentiment on Wikipedia is high ... perhaps outsized to its actual unreliability ... so you are not likely to get a stable consensus of editors to support an exception. Vadder (talk) 15:39, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

December 2020: Peter Fenton (guitarist) listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peter Fenton (guitarist)

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Peter Fenton (guitarist) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peter Fenton (guitarist) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Carliertwo (talk) 23:11, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Edit removed because of unsourced at best

Hello. I Made an edit to the SIOUXSIE SIOUX page stating that 'like her brother she is a fan of Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club. The edit was removed because the edit was unsourced. I Got this info from the following interview in THE DAILY TELEGRAPH news paper dated 25/10/2003 (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/3605285/In-black-and-white.html) and also via an interview in UNCUT Magazine in September 2007 (https://wholehoggblog.wordpress.com/tag/siouxsie-sioux/). Please can someone put in my edit as I think this is relevant information about the artist. I Do not know how to ad reference to my edits so can someone do it for me please? Thank you Bestbass42 (talk) 09:19, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Occupations in lead

There's been some back and forth over which occupations to list in the lead. Imo, per MOS:ROLEBIO, singer and possibly songwriter seems to be the most appropriate. She doesn't seem to be widely known as a record producer. FMSky (talk) 15:16, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Let's remove producer from the occupation lists. The literature doesn't describe her as such. It's apparently a construction that came from Carliertwo adding up various album credits in 2021 to arrive at a novel conclusion.[17] I don't think it's appropriate. Binksternet (talk) 18:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Elaborating on my edit comments: MOS:ROLEBIO is worth reviewing here, and calling out "Incidental and non-noteworthy roles (i.e. activities that are not integral to the person's notability) should usually not be mentioned in the lead paragraph." Singing is what Siouxsie is notable for. I wouldn't strongly object to songwriting, although noting that her songwriting credits are almost always just shared amongst the band. Producer is out of place and merely incidental; notably, I'm not aware of her producing anything for other artists so it's not like an Eno or Cale, and not something discussed in sources. As for musician, this is also out of place. Yes, she has very occasionally been credited with playing instruments, but again this isn't what gets discussed in sources unless to note how unusual it is for her to play on recordings. The closest parallel that comes to mind is John Lydon, who can play various instruments but has very rarely done so live or on studio recordings. CAVincent (talk) 19:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't mind "musician" in the list. The Guardian says "pioneering female musician", BBC says "legendary punk musician", and Rolling Stone says "the punk musician". That gives it more credence than "producer" which does not appear. Binksternet (talk) 22:24, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I suppose there is a distinction to be had between "musician" as a broad term, and "instrumentalist" (the latter of which being what I was thinking of in my comment). Yes, those are top quality sources, and I'll withdraw my objection to musician. CAVincent (talk) 22:44, 5 January 2025 (UTC)